Linear vs logarithmic dimming Resources. The document provides That is, the drive is logarithmic dimming, while the dimmer is linear dimming; or the driver is linear dimming, while the dimmer is logarithmic dimming. May 2, 2019 · Bulbs with logarithmic dimming curves dial the lumens down much faster than their linear counterparts, and that leaves less room for differentiation at the bottom of the scale. This means that dimming to 1% will be perceived as dimming to 10%. Reduced effi cacy in Lumens per Watt arises as the operating current exceeds the linear range. Logarithmic Operating Characteristics is available in our 'Downloads' section of our website, or you may request one my emailing Sales@PathwayLighting. www. Example, if a planet is 10 ls away, it might be 1 unit away in your sensor, if another one is 100 ls away, it might be 2 units away in your sensor. Th e rela-tionship is remarkably linear over useable ranges of I F or forward current. 4 (so the gamma is a power function, but is a little bit more complicated then this). Because of the approximately logarithmic response of the visual system to brightness, dimming curves that resemble a square function are generally rated Jun 28, 2021 · In order to achieve perceptible linear dimming, the brightness of the LED must match the perception behavior of our eyes. Stevens' power law - see it here: Stevens's power law - Wikipedia - gives a method of determining the relative perceived intensity of a stimulus - in this case, brightness of an LED - as a function of the physical magnitude of the stimulus. Note that the brightness output is linear in relation to the digital signal value in linear dimming curves. Logarithmic Dimming — A White Paper Dimming Profiles A dimming profile defines how the light level changes with the dimmer setting. These dimming curves give the specifier the option to align dimming behavior with the characteristics of the human eye and preferences for the application. Because it accounts for eye adaptation and feels natural to users, this dimming curve is the favored approach for visual needs applications using manual controls. It is because By the way, AM = CCR = amplitude dimming = analog dimming = amplitude modulation = drive current adjusting Amplitude dimming isn't modulation, while PWM is, so it almost means the opposite of what I think the author is trying to say. Linear vs Logarithmic Chart – Which Is The Best One? Jan 11, 2006 · At 100mA/10%, constant current outputs 34 lm vs 22 lm (50% more), and uses 0. For example, a potentiometer connected to an Arduino analog input. Unlike a linear price scale, which represents price spacing on the vertical axis with equal distances between designated prices, a logarithmic price scale takes into consideration the percentage of change in price. However, for less severe data changes, you should use the logarithmic scale. Thirdly, changing the strip length won't require me to change current sense resistors. DALI curve is based on formula specified in DALI standard which gives the user outstanding dimming experience. Matching a linear dimmer with a square-law driver, or a square-law dimmer with a linear driver, will produce a square-law dimming curve, which users will perceive as linear dimming. That is why exponential dimming is used. Box 591 Old Saybroo CT 06475-0591 Our White Paper regarding Linear vs. Therefore the PIC16F628 is programmed to produce a logarithmic voltage and the IR2159 drives the lamp arc power (Figu re 10). However, in logarithmic dimming curves, the digital signal value changes slower at deeper dimming levels and faster at the brighter end. The 8th peak was placed, on scale, at the far right of the plot. 5% is 3 stops down etc. However, different from linear dimming curves, the logarithmic dimming curve focuses on subdividing low-end output (output below 20%); to be specific, current under the circumstance that the output between 20% and 100% only takes 59 dimming levels. An analog input signal is received by the ramp ADC. Linear vs Logarithmic Dimming Profile Comparison the industry previously is fast becoming obsolete. com May 2, 2019 · Others use a logarithmic dimming curve that dims down faster for more of a perceivable change in brightness from setting to setting. Apr 13, 2022 · \$\begingroup\$ You seem to be getting several answers that are trying to make the output (in volts) a linear function of illuminance (in lux), when what you seem to actually want is an output proportional to the logarithm of illuminance (to better approximate the more or less logarithmic lightness perception of the human eye), and I suspect your question title is contributing to the confusion. Over-heat / Over-load / Short circuit protection, recover automatically. Need a 800 lumens - 60 W replacement - about 3000K Found this article on linear vs. Logarithmic Dimming — A White Paper Linear vs. O. Figure 1 Perceived vs. The light output changes directly with the dimmer level in a linear dimming curve. As can be seen, without log scaling of the data, the bottom 6 peaks cannot be resolved. Apr 24, 2024 · I've chosen PWM dimming over linear dimming because first, it is simpler and doesn't require an inductor or buck IC such as HV9910C. Mar 26, 2024 · Logarithmic Price Scale. Dec 10, 2021 · The primary reason why DALI lighting systems are the best suited for the non-linear nature of human eye sensitivity is that they follow a logarithmic dimming curve. It really means nothing without a reference point. To dim the light, you move the slider or turn the wheel and the dimmer sends a signal to the driver. The Spherotech 8-peak bead-set was run on a DIVA instrument with either Log scaling (left) or Linear scaling (right). For the control, it is the shape of the curve plotted using the commanded % of light from the system against the output voltage on the 0-10 V line. Below I done a test on two similar 10K pots from TT Electronics to help demonstrate the differences. Logarithmic Dimming is? Well, now you can find out by reading this technical answer from Pathway Lighting- Oct 9, 2024 · Linear vs Logarithmic Charts Explained for Traders . linear scales? The answer lies in their uses. This analog dimming scheme provides high efficiency general ledger code list; headspace health stock; little league softball districts; PDF Linear vs. If the input signal is 25%, then the output value will also be the same. May 3, 2024 · Dimming curve is not standardized on shape and tolerance (linear, logarithmic, square, soft-linear) Long wire distance needs special attention because of voltage drop and potential noise from environment. where X denotes power value and n denotes power level. Pixel dimming Curve question. In a linear dimmer, the signal that the dimmer sends to the driver is linear in relation to the position of the dimmer's Figure 2. The advent of programmable drivers has enabled Pathway Lighting to offer a wide variety of dimming options, including different dimming profiles. Logarithmic describes two different things: 1. Defining Linear Charts The most apparent characteristic in a dimming profile is the rate of change of light output as a function of dimmer setting, also known as the dimming curve. There are three dimming curves to choose: Linear, DALI and log as found in the ETS application database for MEAN WELL PWM KNX direct driver. LED candle lamps for chandeliers) the dimming levels often cannot go below 30%. That means that if I manage to cut the current in half the light will not be half but probably 1/4 or even 1/5. Jan 7, 2025 · The difference between a linear chart and a log scale grows significant as the time frame expands. In linear dimming curves. the digital dimming requirements, the output is logarithmic rather than linear. Learn when to use each scale, how they impact technical analysis, and why choosing the right scale can provide clearer insights for short-term and long-term trading strategies. Method 1: Using external software Linear vs Logarithmic NEMAR 410-2015 Compliant Vive PowPak dimming module with 0-10V control (RMJS-8T-DV-B, -8TN-DV-B, and -8T-DV-B-EM) Clear Connect Type A1 120 / 277 0-10 V 8 60 Auto sink / source Linear Yes Vive PowPak dimming module with 0-10V control (RMJS-5T-347) Clear Connect Type A1 347 0-10 V 5 60 Sink Linear Yes PowPak wireless fixture Jan 31, 2021 · Personally I prefer linear. There are different types of dimming curves. Different scales can provide diverse perspectives and insights, particularly when comparing a linear scale to a logarithmic scale. For logarithmic dimmers, drivers with linear dimming curves should be used. The interpretation of a stock chart can vary among different traders depending on the type of price scale used when viewing the data. - When used with LED phase dimming lamps (i. Figure 5 showcases two additional curves: soft-linear, and square. 1 high_PWM_val and low_PWM_val DALI standards define the logarithmic dimming curve between power value and power level. Sep 9, 2016 · Both the logarithmic and the linear dimming curve have been specified in the IEC62386-207 standard: Particular requirements for auxiliary equipment – LED modules. 5%; Adjustable dimming curve (logarithmic, linear, soft linear or square). We provide all backtests in two flavors: linear and logarithmic (log). Since the human eye is much more sensitive to lower light levels than high levels, the logarithmic output appears to be linear. Log Scale Charts Linear and logarithmic scales are two common methods used to represent data on charts. For example, if an asset price has collapsed from $100. The range from 0% to 100% is equally divided into 255 levels in terms of linear dimming. 034W. Phase dimming of LED is rarely straightforward, and often highly problematic. 00 to $10. Can anyone recommend a LED bulb brand/model with a more linear dimming characteristic so that I see a real difference between level 2 and 3? This is a regular A19 socket. This is typically the case for short-term traders who mainly care about price changes in minutes, hours, or days. In contrast, an audio potentiometer has a non-linear response curve (logarithmic taper) which gives it a more even sound level across different levels of rotation. I don't use FabFilter, but it looks to me like the dB in orange/yellow is measuring gain. 3 Exponential Dimming Human perception of brightness is not linear with luminance of the LEDs and is more sensitive at low luminance, which is approximated to a logarithmic curve. In a scalar scale, things are represented in a simple linear scale, essentially a ruler scale. Note the nonlinearity appearing as I F increases. Say your dimming resolution is 8 bit. Understanding the difference between these two scales is crucial for interpreting and analyzing data accurately. However, instruments measuring photometric quantities such as lumens, footcandles and lux measure light in a perfectly Linear manner as is required for precision comparison of light sources. If I'm not wrong again. Feb 26, 2019 · What about linear or exponential dimming? Watch more to get an introduction to dimming concepts and color mixing based on tricolor theory. ) May 10, 2019 · The problem becomes even more noticeable if a square or logarithmic dimming curve is desired instead of a linear one, as these are much finer graded in the „dark“ dimming ranges. Applying a logarithmic curve in fixtures to the linear signal input of the dimming curve produces a logarithmic change in brightness—and vice-versa—is essential for a linear smooth change in brightness (see Figure 3). In linear dimming curves the brightness output is linear when compared to the input value. Linear vs Logarithmic NEMAR 410-2015 QS link 120 0-10 V 5 each zone 10 total module 50 each zone Auto sink / source Linear Yes Vive PowPak dimming module with 0 Plotting these points on a linear plot leads to an uninformative graph, with most of the points crammed against the lower axis: IMAGE 1 BELOW: Age of this course's faculty vs. Logarithmic dimming profiles better mimic the eye's response and provide smoother changes in brightness, especially at low light levels, compared to linear profiles. dimontechnology. Because the standard curves of most dimmers are linear, the logarithmic curve of the driver’s default configuration can realize the optimal dimming effect. Which means that for a sound or light to feel 2x more intense than other, it needs to be x10 more intense. In daily life, the human eye adapts to a wide range of dimming environments. 95; Efficiency >87. We can transform it to be perceived as linear by applying an exponential function to it. Aug 23, 2017 · Have you ever wondered what the difference between Linear vs. the distance from Columbia at which they grew up. Linear vs Logarithmic NEMAR 410-2015 Compliant Vive PowPak dimming module with 0-10V control (RMJS-8T-DV-B, -8TN-DV-B, and -8T-DV-B-EM) Clear Connect Type A1 120 / 277 0-10 V 8 60 Auto sink / source Linear Yes Vive PowPak dimming module with 0-10V control (RMJS-5T-347) Clear Connect Type A1 347 0-10 V 5 60 Sink Linear Yes PowPak wireless fixture Sep 13, 2022 · Unlike the linear scale, a logarithmic price scale is not plotted with price levels separated by equal distances. In this case your input signal is the reference point. LED Current (I F) 0 mA 500 mA 1A 0 500 1000 Lumens Output Ideal A logarithmic scale grows a lot faster than a linear scale! Think of some type of graph, with a linear scale each unit of the graph would represent the same thing (for example going up 1 square might increase your value by 1) With a logarithmic scale each step up is much bigger because it grows each time (think along the lines of 1, 10, 100 etc. Digital dimming uses a microcontroller to generate PWM signal digitally from code Linear & Logarithmic. In this article, I will cover the main differences between a linear scale chart and a logarithmic scale chart, and when to use each scale. Source: IESNA Lighting Handbook, 9th Edition with modification. When used with a DALI-compatible dimming control, the eldoLED driver’s logarithmic curve provides flawless and smooth dimming. Non-linear Dimming Curves May 3, 2024 · Logarithmic + Linear Or Linear + Logarithmic Is Ideal. The Feb 9, 2013 · Here's a method of calculating brightness levels that appear to be equally spaced. Linear vs. Mar 15, 2024 · And 50% measured light, will have a perceived brightness of about 80%. Dimming controls utilize mathematical formulas to generate response behavior to dimming control settings. You can easily tell the 'taper' type with an ohmmeter. The formula below defines their relation. Jan 18, 2017 · I tested dimming with a incandescent light which resulted in meaningful 3 levels. For linear dimmers, a logarithmic dimming curve should be used in the driver. As you can imagine, the biggest difference between a log price chart with its brother the arithmetic chart is the distance covered. logarithmic charts and scales, what is the difference, and why it’s best and important (and correct) to use a logarithmic scale and not a linear one. First Jun 30, 2022 · Logarithmic price scales tend to show less severe price increases or decreases than linear price scales. For most applications that simply require dimming to See full list on upowertek. Box 591 Old Saybroo CT 06475-0591 First off, Rec709 is not linear, it is a gamma 2. At 10mA, 1%, constant current outputs 4 lm vs 2. Linear Scales: Which Is Best? Logarithmic vs. For logarithmic dimmers, drivers with linear dimming curves should be used Our White Paper regarding Linear vs. Jun 11, 2020 · Same with dimmers, LED drivers can also be linear or logarithmic. Linear Price Scale: An Overview . When To Use Soft Linear And Square Dimming Curves. Free essays, homework help, flashcards, research papers, book reports, term papers, history, science, politics Mar 22, 2010 · Ok so I just had to deal with this. These extreme variations can be compensated with sufficiently high resolution, good electronics and software, without the steps or drift of the color, especially Logarithmic dimming behaviour – matching the eye’s sensitivity High noise immunity Faster and more efficient Bi-directional data flow Remote access and ability to configure Simple and quick installation DALI-2 What is Jul 3, 2019 · Most potentiometers will not list on the body of the pot if it is Linear or Logarithmic and it is often a question that is hard to answer for our customers. Mar 1, 2017 · A method and system of an analog to digital conversion having an exponential result are provided. 844. Sep 20, 2022 · Linear vs Logarithmic Chart – Which Price Scale Should I Use? If you are working on rapidly changing data covering a short time frame, the linear scale will be the right choice for you. Not having a linear dimming pattern makes the light intensity transition very smooth, such that we do not notice visible dimming steps as such, but the overall influence is very 4. Measured Light. 0V Dim. Internally, the PWM duty cycle, SWIRE, and I2C digital inputs are converted to a DC LED current. However, the human eye doesn’t see light output linearly, so other dimming curves are often used. Often, theLED lighting systemconsists of a (wall) dimmer or controller, a driver and a luminaire. com Pathway Lighting Products Inc. That’s also true if you pair a “logarithmic” (“square-law”) dimmer with a “linear” driver. 29W vs 0. In charting, the scale used on the y-axis can greatly affect the interpretation of the data. Linear curve gives the output of driver same as command sent from push button. Lumens output for a certain LED. For example, if the dimmer is set at 50%, the light output will be around 50% of its maximum brightness. A 'linear' pot will read ap This is quick explainer on linear vs logarithmic charts. It explains that the human eye perceives changes in light levels logarithmically rather than linearly. With a linear curve, the difference between 3% and 6% is 1 stop, and the difference between 50% and 100% is also 1 stop. - Limited dimming range. Secondly, dimming is linear and covers entire brightness range when PWM is used. Stable dimming range (especially at the low end of the range, down to 0. Log curves allow for greater dimming resolution at the lower end of a lamps output. Architectural Solerio Commercial Legends Plus Affordable Performance Light Squares Sustainable SolutionsDimming and PerceptionEveryone understands that Dimming simply means reducing the amount of light emitted from a light fixture (luminaire). Nov 7, 2024 · Discover the key differences between logarithmic and linear scales in trading charts. The limitation of gamma, at least how we know it, is that it can reproduce a very limited dynamic range, compared to linear and log. In the previous article dynamically switch between linear and log axis scale using stock tools GUI, you learned how to switch from a logarithmic to a linear interactive scale chart. Dec 7, 2024 · Linear potentiometers provide uniform resistance change, while logarithmic ones are designed for specific applications like audio control where human perception is logarithmic. A “linear” dimmer paired with a “logarithmic” (“square-law”) LED driver will give you this result. There are two main techniques to vary duty cycle: Analog dimming uses a variable DC voltage input to directly control duty cycle. 027W vs 0. LINEAR VS. 4. . A logarithmic price scale is a powerful tool used by technical analysts and traders to analyze price movements. 4, this roughly means that is linear 2. There’s a button below each chart where you can switch between them […] Linear vs Logarithmic NEMAR 410-2011 Compliant TVM module Panel load 24 0-10 V, 100-277 0-10 V 16 300 Sink Linear Yes PowPak dimming module with 0-10V Jul 18, 2022 · 7 Customer Assistance — 1. Figure 5: Effects of Linear vs Log scaling on resolution of 8-peak beads. In this article, we explain what a log scale chart is. SQUARE LAW (LOG) DIMMING. In order to achieve perceptible linear dimming, the brightness of the LED must match the perception behavior of our eyes. Log scale price chart vs arithmetic scale price chart. Logarithmic vs. This document discusses the difference between linear and logarithmic dimming profiles for lighting. Note how on this linear scale more than half the points are so close to the y=0 line than it is difficult to see Oct 25, 2022 · In other words, traders use a linear chart when knowing the actual value of small price changes is essential. EPtronics programmable LED Drivers provide Programmable 0-10V Linear or LOG Dimming 1% – 100% with programma-ble minimum dim and programmable Dim to Zero YES/NO. It may be a bit late in the thread's life for this. 3. 00, the distance between We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Jul 15, 2020 · There are three dimming curves to choose: Linear, DALI and log as found in the ETS application database for Mean Well PWM KNX direct driver. The analog input signal is converted into an N-bit digital signal having a linear relationship with the analog input signal. But I got two concerns: Linear vs Logarithmic NEMAR 410-2011 Compliant TVM module Panel load 24 0-10 V, 100-277 0-10 V 16 300 Sink Linear Yes PowPak dimming module with 0-10V dimming. A gain of 0dB means no change, +6dB means your output will be twice as loud as your Oct 2, 2023 · A linear potentiometer is an adjustable resistor with a fixed resistance. Usually, when people use linear graphs they want to look at the relationship / correlation between the cause and the effect. Rather, it is in such a way that similar percent changes, which could be different numerical values, are plotted as the same vertical distance. Lutron systems in Jan 4, 2019 · Furthermore I remember that current vs light given by a LED is heavily non-linear. Just rotate the knob to half way and measure from the wiper to each end. With a python example: Mar 1, 2017 · This includes a straight linear response to dimming input, or log scale curves of any shape. LUTRON1 Application Note #587 Lutron Equipment Detail Explanations (Continued) Linear vs. Linear Dimming Curve. It provides evenly spaced (linear) output with respect to the angle of its control shaft. The right dimming curve of LED light sources (exponential) to have a linear perception of the increase in light intensity starting from a logarithmic trend of the eye's sensitivity; the Dimming current vs. 50% is 1 stop down, 25% is 2 stops down, 12. 4 Logarithm dimming table Here describes the dimming lookup table used in firmware. Both dimmers and drivers can be linear or logarithmic. Logarithmic or linear dimming curve selectable. 1000 lumens feels just a Dec 10, 2012 · • Dimming an LED source can change the behavior of the Driver • LED dimming performance is determined by Driver capability and compatibility with the dimming equipment • Multiple compatibility issues are rooted in circuit level interactions between the LED Driver and dimmer • What you think you know may no longer be valid There are three dimming curves to choose: Linear, DALI and log as found in the ETS application database for MEAN WELL PWM KNX direct driver. On the left above we have the same log scale chart we discussed earlier. Jul 13, 2020 · Therefore, a “linear” reduction in the slider’s position on the dimmer may result in what’s called “square-law dimming”. P. When the 500 nit version got here I did a comparison. Understanding Chart Types. Nov 5, 2017 · Logarithmic means it scales up according to a logarithmic pattern. Therefore, a “linear” reduction in the slider’s position on the dimmer may result in what’s called “square-law dimming. So there some bad news about the obsession with increased brightness in flashlights. on a linear scale, each tick mark on a graph corresponds to the same distance: eg if each tick mark is 10, you know the graph goes from 10 to 20 30 40 50 etc; on a logarithmic scale, each tick mark does not mean the same distance, eg the first tick mark is 10, the 2nd is 100, the 3rd is 1,000, etc Nov 5, 2021 · The biggest difference between log and arithmetic scale. Basically Perceived brightness = Sqrt(measured brightness) So if yo increase brightness from 10 to 100 (10 fold increase) the perception is only a 3 times increase. This article will explain how to change a logarithmic curve from default to linear curve and vice versa with the help of an external device. 2. With a bulb like that, you might only get 25% of the total May 3, 2024 · All DALI-compatible drivers have linear and logarithmic dimming curves. Logarithmic Dimming — A Nov 21, 2019 · The confusion is because some manufacturers use A for 'log' and B for 'linear', while others use A for 'linear' and B (or C or L) for 'log'. Q4: How long do Feb 7, 2024 · Digital vs Analog Dimming. ” A “linear” dimmer paired with a “logarithmic” (“square-law”) LED driver will give you this result. logarithmic. LED Current (I F) 0 mA 500 mA 1A 0 500 1000 Lumens Output Ideal Long story short, we perceive light and sound in a logarithmic scale, instead of linear. DMX is a digital protocol and is typically used for dynamic colour lighting systems. Logarithmic Dimming Curves In logarithmic dimming curves, the digital signal value changes slower at deeper dimming levels while faster at the brighter end. Logarithmic or linear Jul 9, 2022 · Linear vs. The ISL97698 offers 8-bit linear or 11-bit logarithmic controlled analog output current, with dimming control from a PWM, SWIRE, or I2C interface. The two significant types of dimming curves we will discuss are linear and logarithmic dimming (sometimes referred to as “square-law”). Constant current efficiency is more than double that of PWM. , 10% control position = 10% light power setting. current vs. DMX/RDM. 34W. 2 (almost double), and uses 0. For linear dimmers, logarithmic dimming curves should be used in the driver. As an example, if the digital signal value is 20%, the brightness output will also be 20%. We hope that even experienced users who are familiar with the subject will find a nugget or two of useful wisdom in here. There are diminishing returns. Range is limited by input voltage specs. An analogy to this is found in audio control. e. If the pot they have is still functioning you can often tell which you have by doing a simple resistance test on the potentiometer. Constant current efficiency is almost double that of PWM. The full course includes 35 hours of video instruction, tons of Python and MATLAB cod In a lot of cases, the "effect" is proportional to "the cause", and so the relationship is a "linear" function. Dimmer Types Linear vs Logarithmic NEMAR 410-2011 Compliant (LQSE-4T5) QS link 120 0-10 V 5 A each 20 A total 50 Auto sink / source Linear Yes PowPak dimming module with 0-10V I recently ordered a P1 with the 300 nit screen then decided it was not bright enough and ordered the 500 nit version (both 1080p matte). Logarithmic Dimming — A White Paper. Share https://forums dB is just a unit of logarithmic ratio. According to this link, while the emitted light is linear with the increase in PWM duty cycle, our perception of it is not linear, but logarithmic. While the 0-10 scale on the knob appears to indicate a linear relationship, in fact, audio controls are based on a curve reflecting the non-linear human response to sound. Linear formulas respond to control movement in direct and straight line proportion—i. We look at linear vs. Jun 30, 2024 · Logarithmic Price Scale vs. 1%) Ignorable inrush current, lower than the rated current; Total Harmonic Dissonance (THD) <20% during dimming; High power factor >0. So if the linear dimming control method is used, the final perceived brightness is not linear in human perception. EPtronics latest fixed output current LED Drivers products provide 0-10V Linear Dimming 1% – 100% with Dim to Zero at <1. Linear And Logarithmic Dimmers. Linear vs Logarithmic NEMAR 410-2011 Compliant (LQSE-4T5) QS link 120 0-10 V 5 A each 20 A total 50 Auto sink / source Linear Yes PowPak dimming module with 0-10V Mar 15, 2024 · The lighting designer or specifier can choose from one of three 'natural dimming' curves: soft-linear, square, and logarithmic (see Figure 3). Feeling and perception is subjective of course, but 5000 lumens will probably be perceived as twice as intense as 500 lumens. com Jun 6, 2020 · This video is part of a full course on statistics and machine-learning. The driver translates that signal to an electrical current that powers the LED. - Numbers of LED luminaires need to be carefully checked against the dimmer specifications. By Box on Rails July 9, 2022 in LOR Software - General. Stand-alone RGB/RGBW mode and 4 channel dimmer mode selectable, which be controlled by buttons with built-in programs, instead of DMX signal. Logarithmic Dimming Linear vs. sorh saue wtqgk bjwqq tctrzuj fwikqd lsatj inflx jmpxxb qako